* Now talking in #egnuol
* Topic is 'T.C.A. EGNUOL CHANNEL OF ESPERNET www.geocities.com/preada/TCALYRIX.html | Fun with words! #egnuol backwards would be #lounge (ignoring non-letters). Pretty cool huh? A real word! Like from the dictionary, #lounge wow!'
Now #lounge is a +s channel owned by a server admin, IJ. My friend and I found this topic quite amusing. In order to advertise the channel, I put it in the topic of #slackerz, which I founded.
* Now talking in #slackerz
* Topic is 'Slackerz owned by Matt now:: http://www.slackerz.org | Unions in Belgium consider strike because of repetitive Christmas Caroling | we mourn of the loss of Nicholas | http://www.slackerz.org/comic.php?date=20030401 | [A] = away | best channel = #egnuol'
Being the channel of a semi-popular webcomic, people from the forums there randomly walk in. One of them, Anime_Freek, joined the channel and presumably saw the link in the topic, because he joined #egnuol a moment later.
(01/30)[15:57:18] * Anime_Freek (goten_vort@me-kennebunk3a-81.knbnme.adelphia.net) has joined #egnuol
(01/30)[15:57:52] * Anime_Freek (goten_vort@me-kennebunk3a-81.knbnme.adelphia.net) has left #egnuol
Now this wasn't too surprising. What was surprising, however, was a message from IJ a moment later.
IJ is ianj@207.126.67.194 * Ian R. Justman
IJ on @#slayers @#dragonweyr
IJ using chocobo.esper.net *WARK! WARK!*
IJ has identified for this nick
IJ is an IRC Operator - Services Administrator
IJ End of /WHOIS list.
Session Start: Fri Jan 30 16:01:13 2004
(01/30)[16:01:13] Session Ident: IJ (ianj@207.126.67.194)
(01/30)[16:01:13] <IJ> Hey.
(01/30)[16:01:34] <Andre> hi
(01/30)[16:02:02] <IJ> Would you tell me why you put what you put in your channel topic what you did?
(01/30)[16:02:34] <Andre> what, #egnuol? that wasn't me but I didn't take it out because I thought it was amusing
(01/30)[16:02:46] <IJ> I suggest you take it out right now.
(01/30)[16:02:52] <Andre> why's that?
(01/30)[16:03:39] <Andre> hello?
(01/30)[16:04:15] <IJ> Do a /mode #lounge and find out for yourself.
(01/30)[16:04:41] <Andre> yeah, #lounge is +s, I know
(01/30)[16:04:49] <Andre> but what does that have to do with my topic?
(01/30)[16:04:50] <IJ> And do you know who owns it?
(01/30)[16:05:00] <Andre> uh... you, presumably
(01/30)[16:05:03] <IJ> Yes.
(01/30)[16:05:13] <Andre> it happens that egnuol is lounge backwards
(01/30)[16:05:31] <Andre> if you want I will take out the #s so nobody clicks on the channel name by accident...
(01/30)[16:05:45] <IJ> If you would.
(01/30)[16:05:55] <IJ> ANd you do realize the channel is +s for a reason right?
(01/30)[16:06:17] <Andre> because you don't want anyone joining it, I suppose
(01/30)[16:06:22] <IJ> Yes.
(01/30)[16:06:43] <Andre> but my associate in #egnuol wasn't advertising your channel nor encouraging anyone to join it
(01/30)[16:07:18] <Andre> my channel is just appreciation for a nonsenical poem we found on the internet
(01/30)[16:07:18] <IJ> YOU were.
(01/30)[16:07:22] <Andre> what?
(01/30)[16:07:31] <Andre> when was htis?
(01/30)[16:07:32] <Andre> this
(01/30)[16:07:33] <IJ> [13:00:19] -ChanServ- Information for channel #egnuol:
(01/30)[16:07:33] <IJ> -
(01/30)[16:07:33] <IJ> [13:00:19] -ChanServ- Founder: L (andrevan@ool-182ca41a.dyn.optonline.net)
(01/30)[16:07:33] <IJ> -
(01/30)[16:07:33] <IJ> [13:00:19] -ChanServ- Description: http://www.geocities.com/preada/TCALYRIX.html
(01/30)[16:07:33] <IJ> -
(01/30)[16:07:33] <IJ> [13:00:19] -ChanServ- Registered: Jan 05 13:19:14 2004 PST
(01/30)[16:07:33] <IJ> -
(01/30)[16:07:33] <IJ> [13:00:19] -ChanServ- Last used: Jan 30 11:06:35 2004 PST
(01/30)[16:07:33] <IJ> -
(01/30)[16:07:33] <IJ> [13:00:19] -ChanServ- Last topic: T.C.A. EGNUOL OFFICIAL CHANNEL OF ESPERNET www.geocities.com/preada/TCALYRIX.html | Fun with words! #egnuol backwards would be #lounge (ignoring non-letters). Pretty cool huh? A real word! Like from the dictionary, #lounge wow!
(01/30)[16:07:37] <IJ> -
(01/30)[16:07:37] <IJ> [13:00:19] -ChanServ- Topic set by: Andre
(01/30)[16:07:37] <IJ> -
(01/30)[16:07:37] <IJ> [13:00:19] -ChanServ- Options: Topic Retention, Secure
(01/30)[16:07:40] <IJ> -
(01/30)[16:07:40] <IJ> [13:00:19] -ChanServ- Mode lock: +nt
(01/30)[16:07:40] <IJ> -
(01/30)[16:07:48] <IJ> YOU set #egnuol's title.
(01/30)[16:07:51] <IJ> Er, topic.
(01/30)[16:07:56] <IJ> YOU founded the channel.
(01/30)[16:08:29] <Andre> that part of the topic was actually added by my associate
(01/30)[16:08:29] <Andre> (01/30)[16:08:09] -ChanServ- Access list for #egnuol:
(01/30)[16:08:29] <Andre> -
(01/30)[16:08:29] <Andre> (01/30)[16:08:09] -ChanServ- Num Lev Nick
(01/30)[16:08:29] <Andre> -
(01/30)[16:08:29] <Andre> (01/30)[16:08:09] -ChanServ- 1 10 G (uncanny2@207.99.6.125)
(01/30)[16:08:39] <Andre> however he meant no harm, I'm sure
(01/30)[16:09:01] <Andre> and we aren't advertising the channel
(01/30)[16:09:17] <IJ> Yes, you are.
(01/30)[16:09:37] <Andre> like I said, it's a channel about the weird poem that is linked in the topic, and my friend found it amusing to remark upon the similarity to other words
(01/30)[16:09:40] <IJ> Also, take out your "official" statement.
(01/30)[16:10:04] <Andre> It's the official channel for T.C.A EGNUOL, not the official channel of Espernet
(01/30)[16:10:13] <IJ> Oh.
(01/30)[16:10:54] <Andre> anyway, I've taken out the # signs so to avoid association of the word "lounge" with your +s channel
(01/30)[16:11:00] <IJ> Good.
(01/30)[16:11:19] <IJ> I hope this was an honest mistake.
(01/30)[16:11:22] <IJ> For your sake.
(01/30)[16:12:02] <Andre> well it wasn't a mistake, it just didn't have anything to do with the actual channel of #lounge
(01/30)[16:12:45] <Andre> were the channel called #eseehc we would have done the same topic with "#cheese"
(01/30)[16:13:21] <Andre> but the poem we found funny wasn't called T.C.A. ESEEHC, it was called T.C.A. EGNUOL
(01/30)[16:17:58] <Andre> by the way it doesn't mention anything about putting +s channels in topics in the rules on your webpage, maybe you should add it so people like me don't break the rules inadvertently
(01/30)[16:18:16] <IJ> It depends on the channel.
(01/30)[16:18:29] <IJ> In my case, I tend to come down very hard on people because i"m one of the admins.
(01/30)[16:18:48] <Andre> oh, so you mean it isn't really against the network rules?
(01/30)[16:19:03] <IJ> I'm not saying it's a network issue.
(01/30)[16:19:12] <IJ> In fact, I've been trying very hard to not make it one.
(01/30)[16:20:35] <Andre> well, let's say I have a channel called #abc that is +s and someone else puts it in the topic of #def, under the rules of whatever does #def have to take it out?
(01/30)[16:20:55] <IJ> #abc has to complain to us first.
(01/30)[16:20:55] <Andre> I ask merely for clarification, mind
(01/30)[16:20:57] <Andre> ok
(01/30)[16:21:03] <IJ> In my case, I am "us".
(01/30)[16:21:18] <Andre> so if #abc complained to you that #def had #abc in the topic, would you tell #def to remove it?
(01/30)[16:21:20] <IJ> So I took my case directly to you because I am both owner of the channel and network staff.
(01/30)[16:21:35] <IJ> I myself would, yes.
(01/30)[16:21:47] <IJ> In my case, I spoke in both capacities.
(01/30)[16:22:12] <Andre> and if #def didn't want to remove it, being as it isn't listed in the network rules, isn't #def motivated only by courtesy to do so?
(01/30)[16:22:41] <IJ> I tend to do things like this on a case-by-case basis.
(01/30)[16:22:52] <IJ> It's generally not a good idea.
(01/30)[16:23:14] <Andre> you seem to be evading my question, so I'll put it more bluntly.
(01/30)[16:23:24] <IJ> I am NOT evading your question.
(01/30)[16:23:32] <IJ> I'd say by courtesy.
(01/30)[16:23:46] <IJ> In my case, I have not only courtesy, but administrative power to back it up.
(01/30)[16:24:06] <IJ> (Since I am filling both channel founder and network administration roles.)
(01/30)[16:25:08] <Andre> so you're saying that since you're both network and channel staff, you have the ability to force me to remove #lounge, but were you just channel staff, you wouldn't
(01/30)[16:25:52] <IJ> If I weren't staff, speaking strictly for myself, I would have asked you directly.
(01/30)[16:26:05] <IJ> If you didn't comply, I would have gone to the network staff.
(01/30)[16:26:32] <Andre> and would the network staff be able to force me to remove #lounge from the topic, in this particular case?
At the start of the conversation, 16:03:58, Anime_Freek rejoined and parted the channel. Apparently IJ then got fed up with me, because I got a message from Ketju, another IRCop.
Ketju is dave@ool-44c1691d.dyn.optonline.net * Bob
Ketju on @#esper @#dragonweyr @#macintosh
Ketju using legend.esper.net Every server has a story. Only one is a Legend.
Ketju has identified for this nick
Ketju is an IRC Operator
Ketju End of /WHOIS list.
Session Start: Fri Jan 30 16:26:41 2004
(01/30)[16:26:41] Session Ident: Ketju (dave@ool-44c1691d.dyn.optonline.net)
(01/30)[16:26:41] <Ketju> So let me get this straight, you do not wish to remove that from your channels topic?
(01/30)[16:27:29] <Andre> I'd rather not, being as it's a joke I find amusing and IJ's tactics to have me remove it are intimidating and strike me as rather abrasive
(01/30)[16:27:32] <Andre> are you speaking for IJ?
(01/30)[16:27:46] <Ketju> I am speaking for myself, and EsperNet.
(01/30)[16:27:57] <Andre> alright
(01/30)[16:28:01] <Ketju> Since you are saying that it is an official channel, it really does need to be changed.
(01/30)[16:28:12] <Andre> it's an official channel of T.C.A. EGNUOL
(01/30)[16:28:12] <Ketju> Also since your actions send people to bother another channel, you can't do that.
(01/30)[16:28:14] <Andre> not of Espernet
(01/30)[16:28:34] <Andre> and this entire conversation is based on
(01/30)[16:17:58] <Andre> by the way it doesn't mention anything about putting +s channels in topics in the rules on your webpage, maybe you should add it so people like me don't break the rules inadvertently
(01/30)[16:28:55] <Ketju> Let's be reasonable, we both know what your results will be.
(01/30)[16:29:11] <Ketju> Yes, and that same policy says the people who run this network can remove anybody for any reason.
(01/30)[16:29:19] <Ketju> So let's not go pointing at the policy, ok?
(01/30)[16:29:52] <Andre> I understand you can just have me klined if you want on a whim, but I think this network has a reputation somewhat of a good place to have a channel
(01/30)[16:30:11] <Ketju> And it is, this is why I am speaking to you and not having you banned, right?
(01/30)[16:30:17] <Andre> sure
(01/30)[16:30:34] <Andre> all I said was, if there's a problem with putting +s channels in topics, why don't you make it clearer?
(01/30)[16:31:00] <Andre> yes, I can imagine people might click on #lounge and end up there
(01/30)[16:31:06] <Ketju> Well, I can see why you'd want it more concrete, however you have to understand the point of +s is to be secret, you putting it in a topic is not polite.
(01/30)[16:31:18] <Andre> Not polite is not the same as not allowed, though.
(01/30)[16:32:35] <Andre> Now I have no problem with being courteous and taking it out, but I am affronted by IJ's methods of getting me to do so
(01/30)[16:32:37] <Ketju> Well, putting a +s channel in your topic can be seen as harassing a user, Harassing users, e.g. through inflammatory messages.
(01/30)[16:33:01] <Ketju> I can see that.
(01/30)[16:33:19] <Ketju> He, as the founder of said channel, was probably a little more offended than others and might have acted on that a bit.
(01/30)[16:34:08] <Ketju> Will you change it and refrain from doing things like that in the future?
(01/30)[16:35:13] <Andre> I took out the #s already, to avoid stray clicks, and now that it's clear to me that this will fall under the category of "harassment" I'll be more careful about my wordplay in the future
(01/30)[16:35:29] <Ketju> Thank you.
(01/30)[16:37:00] <Ketju> Please remove the OFFICIAL CHANNEL OF ESPERNET from the topic
(01/30)[16:39:52] <Andre> it's supposed to mean that T.C.A. EGNUOL is the official channel for said poem on the network of Espernet
(01/30)[16:40:11] <Andre> not that #egnuol is an official EsperNet channel
(01/30)[16:40:17] <Ketju> I understand, but if it can confuse users we can't allow it.
(01/30)[16:40:21] <Andre> oh
(01/30)[16:40:34] <Andre> would OFFICIAL T.C.A. EGNUOL CHANNEL OF ESPERNET be acceptable?
(01/30)[16:40:42] <Ketju> That would be wonderful
(01/30)[16:40:58] <Andre> alright, changed
(01/30)[16:44:13] <Ketju> Thanks, have a good day
(01/30)[16:44:40] <Andre> You too.
Certainly shows you how power runs in EsperNet. During the conversation with IJ, I quickly removed all mention of #egnuol from other channels I had changed the topic in, and had someone else change the topic of another channel that had "official" in it so it wouldn't be associated with me. (I didn't, in fact, put it there.) Anime_Freek is a bit of a moron on the #slackerz forums, and apparently a moron in IRC as well.
Questions? Comments? Have your own #lounge stories you think I should post? Email.